Discussion:
new iPhone 4s
(too old to reply)
stephen barncard
2011-10-04 19:03:26 UTC
Permalink
watching apple announcement on CNN on the iPad

Just announced: iPhone 4s

new A5 dual core processor
7x graphics speed
real-time rendering in a game shown

new battery
8 hours talk time on 3g
10 hours video

14.4 mb wifi performance

more next post

WORLD PHONE NOW

2 antenna technologies

camera

new sensor 8 megapixel

3264 2448 60% bigger

backside illumination more light
hybrid IR filter

five element lens

f 2.4 aperture

A5 image processor on chip

26% better white balance

timing 1.1 second click to file
.5 for second photo

depth of field


video recording:
HD 1080 p resolution
noise reduction


airplay

airplay mirroring


voice feature

Siri - intelligent assistant

fast. smart, AI

plain english question - no learning

meaning behind words

what is the hourly forecast
do I need a raincoat today.
what time is it in Paris?
understands words and meanings.
wake me up tomorrow at 6am
how's the NASDAQ doing today?
find me a great greek restaurants in Palo Alto. (yelp)
give me directions to hoover tower (maps)

reads text messages

search web: search wickipedia for Neil armstrong
currency conversion

play any song (thru the cloud)

compose and dictate email



[ sqb comment - I will be really impressed when it can do this in Portuguese
! ]


--



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
Joe Lewis Wilkins
2011-10-04 19:13:33 UTC
Permalink
Sounds great Stephen, but it doesn't replace Viagra (yet!)

Joe Wilkins

On Oct 4, 2011, at 12:03 PM, stephen barncard wrote:

> watching apple announcement on CNN on the iPad
>
> Just announced: iPhone 4s
>
> new A5 dual core processor
> 7x graphics speed
> real-time rendering in a game shown
>
> new battery
> 8 hours talk time on 3g
> 10 hours video
>
> 14.4 mb wifi performance
>
> more next post
>
> WORLD PHONE NOW
>
> 2 antenna technologies
>
> camera
>
> new sensor 8 megapixel
>
> 3264 2448 60% bigger
>
> backside illumination more light
> hybrid IR filter
>
> five element lens
>
> f 2.4 aperture
>
> A5 image processor on chip
>
> 26% better white balance
>
> timing 1.1 second click to file
> .5 for second photo
>
> depth of field
>
>
> video recording:
> HD 1080 p resolution
> noise reduction
>
>
> airplay
>
> airplay mirroring
>
>
> voice feature
>
> Siri - intelligent assistant
>
> fast. smart, AI
>
> plain english question - no learning
>
> meaning behind words
>
> what is the hourly forecast
> do I need a raincoat today.
> what time is it in Paris?
> understands words and meanings.
> wake me up tomorrow at 6am
> how's the NASDAQ doing today?
> find me a great greek restaurants in Palo Alto. (yelp)
> give me directions to hoover tower (maps)
>
> reads text messages
>
> search web: search wickipedia for Neil armstrong
> currency conversion
>
> play any song (thru the cloud)
>
> compose and dictate email
>
>
>
> [ sqb comment - I will be really impressed when it can do this in Portuguese
> ! ]
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Stephen Barncard
> San Francisco Ca. USA
>
> more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Warren Samples
2011-10-04 19:19:17 UTC
Permalink
On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
> but it doesn't replace Viagra


I'm sure there are some...
stephen barncard
2011-10-04 19:22:33 UTC
Permalink
politics, religion, cheese and sex

On 4 October 2011 12:19, Warren Samples <***@warrensweb.us> wrote:

> On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
>
>> but it doesn't replace Viagra
>>
>
>
> I'm sure there are some...
>
>
>
Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
Andre Garzia
2011-10-04 19:31:24 UTC
Permalink
are we moderated yet?

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:22 PM, stephen barncard <
***@barncard.com> wrote:

> politics, religion, cheese and sex
>
> On 4 October 2011 12:19, Warren Samples <***@warrensweb.us> wrote:
>
> > On 10/04/2011 02:13 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:
> >
> >> but it doesn't replace Viagra
> >>
> >
> >
> > I'm sure there are some...
> >
> >
> >
> Stephen Barncard
> San Francisco Ca. USA
>
> more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 02:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
now that Jobs is gone.

Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
experience with both and can offer advice?

--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 02:54:04 UTC
Permalink
If they had called it the iPhone 5, everyone would still be impressed. The iPhone 4 is an amazing phone, and the iPhone 4S is better in almost every way it could be. So that makes it be a bit better than you're suggesting.


On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
> this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
> now that Jobs is gone.
Roger Eller
2011-10-05 02:54:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
> this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
> now that Jobs is gone.
>
> Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
> experience with both and can offer advice?
>
> --
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.


I don't have an iPhone, but when I first learned of ppl doing this, I loved
the idea. You own the hardware, so install what you want.

http://lifehacker.com/5693309/how-to-install-android-on-an-iphone-in-six-easy-steps

˜Roger
stephen barncard
2011-10-05 03:11:38 UTC
Permalink
why is this phone a turd, Chipp? Tell us how you really feel.

I've got an "old" 3 (non-gs) now and planning an upgrade. The 3 <IS> a turd,
I'm no fan-boy, but I really don't want an Android.
I'm going to switch to Verizon anyway.

On 4 October 2011 19:44, Chipp Walters <***@chipp.com> wrote:

> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
> this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
> now that Jobs is gone.
>
> Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
> experience with both and can offer advice?
>
> --
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
>
>


--



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 03:28:13 UTC
Permalink
C'mon guys! Haven't you been following the blogs and build up for iPhone 5?
it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
just announced the 4.

Steven, yes the iPhone is a very nice device, only this version isn't all
that much different from a 4 (purely functional point of view). Yes, it is
faster, and has a bit nicer camera-- but that's about it. None of the edge
to edge glass or larger display the Androids tout. I get it. You really like
Apple stuff. I'm happy for you. I'm just asking those who have owned BOTH
for some insights to the plus and minuses of each product.

I find I no longer need much of the iPhone apps as they all exist in better
versions on my iPad. I was seriously considering getting the new iPhone 5
since my plan is up, but I certainly don't think I'll upgrade my 4 to a 4s.
Have you even looked at the Androids in the store? Their screen is
*significantly* larger than the 4. And I know the maps app is better on
Android, as is their native integration with all things Google (which I use
a LOT). And I know I'd much rather develop for Android than iOS- which is a
huge plus (offset by the huge minus of Rev not keeping feature parity
between the two).

On Tuesday, October 4, 2011, stephen barncard <
***@barncard.com> wrote:
> why is this phone a turd, Chipp? Tell us how you really feel.
>
> I've got an "old" 3 (non-gs) now and planning an upgrade. The 3 <IS> a
turd,
> I'm no fan-boy, but I really don't want an Android.
> I'm going to switch to Verizon anyway.
>
> On 4 October 2011 19:44, Chipp Walters <***@chipp.com> wrote:
>
>> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
>> this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things
up
>> now that Jobs is gone.
>>
>> Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
>> experience with both and can offer advice?
>>
>> --
>> Chipp Walters
>> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Stephen Barncard
> San Francisco Ca. USA
>
> more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
Admin
2011-10-05 04:20:33 UTC
Permalink
I owned a Apple Iphone 3g and my wife owns a touch 4 and the newest
touch with better video.

I now own a HTC Evo (not the 3D one) with an
expanded battery.

I also own an Android tablet and an Ipad2.

OK,
where do I begin?

First, I like the Ipad2 better for creating music
and editing video. EVERYTHING else is better on the Android (in this
case, a Acer Iconia A500 with 32GB ram). The Acer can play flash, has
more memory expandability, usb ports, gps, vibration, sensors all over
the place and an Nvidia dual core Tegra processor that allows me to play
PS3-like graphics smoothly and effortlessly. True HDMI out and can play
1080p video with no problems. True USB port on the Acer allows for tons
of expansion, such as keyboard and mouse, hubs, music hardware, etc. Now
that they have the camera expansion for the iPad2, you can also use a
hub, keyboard, etc. Both have wifi and blue tooth. I find itunes to be a
PAIN IN THE ASS. I find Android stores to be easier to use, find stuff
and the return policy is a bit easier. However, since there is little
policing of the Android stores, cream rises to the top but there is
plenty of crap as well. Apple maintains a iron grip on the apps, music,
etc, so their policies are militant in nature. I simply hate that.

The
Ipad2 has a more clean and visceral experience - namely, it seems like
the hardware is a bit more responsive and fluid. The Acer has a perfect
screen and the touch sensitivity is great, but the Ipad2 seems to have
the edge here.

Why do I talk about tablets when this is about phones?
Because the tablets are bigger phones, essentially.

My Iphone was
great. Small, but great. It could not really play video that well, had
limited outputs until they built peripherals for the data port, but
still, just one data port. It makes a great, but bulky mp3 player, but
iTunes just kills it for me - you just cannot do things very easily.
It's just too much effort to simply put your own mp3 files on there.

I
found the sound quality of the iphone to be acceptable - not amazing,
but good. The headphone jack was recessed, so some headphones did not
fit - not a good design decision. I like the headphone jack on the
bottom of the phone even less.

Both the phones and tablets are thinner
than their Android cousins. They remain cool and work pretty well.
Battery life simply SUCKS. iphones and iTouch iPods do not have great
battery life and there is NO WAY to upgrade it or switch it out. When it
is dead, it's dead. The iPad2 is a bit better because the battery hold a
charge a bit more and when it is turned off, the battery lasts a long
time, but with heavy use, the battery drains quickly. On the Acer
Android pad, the battery lasts a good 20 hours with heavy use - MUCH
LONGER than the iPad2, but it does not hold a charge when off or in
sleep mode and the battery will drain - so iPad2 wins on the drain game,
but cannot outlast the Acer.

Likewise, the HTC Evo is a PLEASURE to
use. The screen is massive, gorgeous and VERY sensitive to touch. The
sound quality is equally as good (it has Dolby Surround Sound) and can
play video GREAT. It even has a HDMI output just like the Acer, so you
can tote movies and videos around with you and watch on the big screen.
It plays flash and pretty much any technology that can play on Linux
will play on the HTC with limited exceptions. I am finding more and more
of the best apple apps finding their way to my HTC. The battery life
SUCKED big time on the HTC, but, unlike the iPhone, you can simply
remove it and buy a bigger one! I did. Now I have a massive 48 hours of
usage before I have to charge it. It now fits even better in my hand and
the added weight, though negligible, makes it feel more solid for some
weird reason. Thin and lightweight is not always a good thing, as I
found the iphone to be hard to hold for long periods and would slip out
of my grip. My HTC feels solid and never slips.

Overall, I am very
pleased with my HTC Evo and will never go back to iphone.

Mike

On
Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:28:13 -0500, Chipp Walters wrote:

> C'mon guys!
Haven't you been following the blogs and build up for iPhone 5?
> it was
pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
> just
announced the 4.
>
> Steven, yes the iPhone is a very nice device, only
this version isn't all
> that much different from a 4 (purely functional
point of view). Yes, it is
> faster, and has a bit nicer camera-- but
that's about it. None of the edge
> to edge glass or larger display the
Androids tout. I get it. You really like
> Apple stuff. I'm happy for
you. I'm just asking those who have owned BOTH
> for some insights to
the plus and minuses of each product.
>
> I find I no longer need much
of the iPhone apps as they all exist in better
> versions on my iPad. I
was seriously considering getting the new iPhone 5
> since my plan is
up, but I certainly don't think I'll upgrade my 4 to a 4s.
> Have you
even looked at the Androids in the store? Their screen is
>
*significantly* larger than the 4. And I know the maps app is better
on
> Android, as is their native integration with all things Google
(which I use
> a LOT). And I know I'd much rather develop for Android
than iOS- which is a
> huge plus (offset by the huge minus of Rev not
keeping feature parity
> between the two).
>
> On Tuesday, October 4,
2011, stephen barncard <
> ***@barncard.com [4]> wrote:
>

>> why is this phone a turd, Chipp? Tell us how you really feel. I've
got an "old" 3 (non-gs) now and planning an upgrade. The 3a
>
> turd,
>

>> I'm no fan-boy, but I really don't want an Android. I'm going to
switch to Verizon anyway. On 4 October 2011 19:44, Chipp Walters wrote:

>>
>>> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and
Apple lays this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to
screw things
>
> up
> now that Jobs is gone. Now, I'm considering
upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have experience with both and
can offer advice? -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc. --
Stephen Barncard San Francisco Ca. USA more about sqb
_______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing
list use-***@lists.runrev.com [3] Please visit this url to
subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>>
>> subscription
preferences:
> left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px;
width:100%">http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode [5]
>

>>



Links:
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[2]
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[3]
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[4]
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[5]
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Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 04:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Chipp wrote:

> it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
> just announced the 4.

Supposed to be? According to whom? Apple, or the zillions of blogs and pundits and "analysts"?

Don't blame Apple for not meeting your ill-informed expectations :)

Gerry
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 04:53:14 UTC
Permalink
Gerry,

No need to get personal. I suppose you're new about these parts. I'm asking
for opinions regarding the iPhone vs Android. I certainly wasn't asking your
opinion of my expectations. Clearly you're a fan of Apple. Good for you.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2011, Gerry Orkin <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chipp wrote:
>
>> it was pretty well known there was SUPPOSED to be a 4 and a 5, only they
>> just announced the 4.
>
> Supposed to be? According to whom? Apple, or the zillions of blogs and
pundits and "analysts"?
>
> Don't blame Apple for not meeting your ill-informed expectations :)
>
> Gerry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
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--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 06:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Chipp

If parts of your messages are off limits for a response then help me by marking them as such :)

There's nothing personal about my comments. We are ALL ill-informed when it comes to speculation about unannounced products. There's all sorts of noise and nonsense in the lead up, some of it specifically designed to manipulate our expectations. You asserted a level of entitlement based on your (ill-informed by the sources you chose to believe) expectations.

It's just a phone. We don't need to take it so personally :)


Gerry



On 05/10/2011, at 3:53 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Gerry,
>
> No need to get personal. I suppose you're new about these parts. I'm asking
> for opinions regarding the iPhone vs Android. I certainly wasn't asking your
> opinion of my expectations. Clearly you're a fan of Apple. Good for you.
Bill Vlahos
2011-10-05 04:54:39 UTC
Permalink
I haven't used an Android but the people at work who have personal ones say they like them but find that they are buggy and need to be restarted frequently. The ones that have them like them because they can tinker more with them but even they say we shouldn't support them. It reminds me of the people who want to build their own PCs.

We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls, and poor security model.

I know people complain about no LTE on the iPhone but all the LTE phones have horrible battery life. I'll be more excited about LTE when it is more widely available. Right now it is pointless unless you live in one of the areas that have it.

The iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s are very good. For people who want even more extended life there are very nice battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a surprisingly small amount of weight and size and are very comfortable. I don't use them because I find the battery life to be plenty for me.

I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved performance and Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to text like Dragon Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones then it won't be a big deal at all. However, if it is more like the IBM Watson computer that won on Jeopardy then it will truly be revolutionary. I won't really be able to know until the 4S is out and I can try it.

I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.

Bill Vlahos
_________________
InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com) is about keeping your important life information with you, accessible, and secure.

On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
> this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
> now that Jobs is gone.
>
> Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
> experience with both and can offer advice?
>
> --
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
stephen barncard
2011-10-05 04:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Again I request we cut back on the passive-aggressive stuff. It's just a
goddamn phone.




Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
Admin
2011-10-05 05:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Bill,

I could not disagree more. My Iphone crashed constantly and
had to be rebooted all the time. My wife's BRAND NEW itouch 4 - same
thing.

My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
and only one of Apple.

Mike

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:54:39 -0700, Bill
Vlahos wrote:

> I haven't used an Android but the people at work who
have personal ones say they like them but find that they are buggy and
need to be restarted frequently. The ones that have them like them
because they can tinker more with them but even they say we shouldn't
support them. It reminds me of the people who want to build their own
PCs.
>
> We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls,
and poor security model.
>
> I know people complain about no LTE on the
iPhone but all the LTE phones have horrible battery life. I'll be more
excited about LTE when it is more widely available. Right now it is
pointless unless you live in one of the areas that have it.
>
> The
iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s
are very good. For people who want even more extended life there are
very nice battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a
surprisingly small amount of weight and size and are very comfortable. I
don't use them because I find the battery life to be plenty for me.
>
>
I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved
performance and Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to
text like Dragon Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones
then it won't be a big deal at all. However, if it is more like the IBM
Watson computer that won on Jeopardy then it will truly be
revolutionary. I won't really be able to know until the 4S is out and I
can try it.
>
> I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.
>
>
Bill Vlahos
> _________________
> InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com
[3]) is about keeping your important life information with you,
accessible, and secure.
>
> On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters
wrote:
>
>> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5,
and Apple lays this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long
to screw things up now that Jobs is gone. Now, I'm considering upgrading
my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have experience with both and can offer
advice? -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
_______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing
list use-***@lists.runrev.com [1] Please visit this url to
subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode [2]
>
>
_______________________________________________
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list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com [4]
> Please visit this url to
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[2]
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[3]
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[4] mailto:use-***@lists.runrev.com
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stephen barncard
2011-10-05 06:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Gentlemen,

This thread is similar to the Windows vs. Mac debates here that sometimes
got out of hand. Since Livecode supports both mobile platforms, don't you
think this name-calling bullshit should stop?

I spent an hour writing a 'rebuttal' and finally decided to NOT post it. It
would just fan the flames. To each his own, but this thread has turned into
an insult and angst-ridden feud that won't result in changing anyone's mind.
Please stop.

It seems the current political climate appears to give license to anyone
that doesn't agree to go to the extremes.

*These are just phones*.

sqb

On 4 October 2011 22:33, Admin <***@mfelkerco.com> wrote:

>
>
> Bill,
>
> I could not disagree more. My Iphone crashed constantly and
> had to be rebooted all the time. My wife's BRAND NEW itouch 4 - same
> thing.
>
> My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
> with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
> You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
> number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
> far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
> and only one of Apple.
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:54:39 -0700, Bill
> Vlahos wrote:
>
> > I haven't used an Android but the people at work who
> have personal ones say they like them but find that they are buggy and
> need to be restarted frequently. The ones that have them like them
> because they can tinker more with them but even they say we shouldn't
> support them. It reminds me of the people who want to build their own
> PCs.
> >
> > We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls,
> and poor security model.
> >
> > I know people complain about no LTE on the
> iPhone but all the LTE phones have horrible battery life. I'll be more
> excited about LTE when it is more widely available. Right now it is
> pointless unless you live in one of the areas that have it.
> >
> > The
> iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s
> are very good. For people who want even more extended life there are
> very nice battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a
> surprisingly small amount of weight and size and are very comfortable. I
> don't use them because I find the battery life to be plenty for me.
> >
> >
> I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved
> performance and Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to
> text like Dragon Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones
> then it won't be a big deal at all. However, if it is more like the IBM
> Watson computer that won on Jeopardy then it will truly be
> revolutionary. I won't really be able to know until the 4S is out and I
> can try it.
> >
> > I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.
> >
> >
> Bill Vlahos
> > _________________
> > InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com
> [3]) is about keeping your important life information with you,
> accessible, and secure.
> >
> > On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters
> wrote:
> >
> >> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5,
> and Apple lays this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long
> to screw things up now that Jobs is gone. Now, I'm considering upgrading
> my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have experience with both and can offer
> advice? -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
> _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing
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--



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
René Micout
2011-10-05 09:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Hello Stephen

Le 5 oct. 2011 à 08:10, stephen barncard a écrit :
>
>
> *These are just phones*.


These are NOT just phones... These are computers... and now : computers which (or who ? ... hum...) talk to us...

;-)

Bon souvenir de Paris
René
Andre Garzia
2011-10-05 14:31:55 UTC
Permalink
Guys,

I have the following machines here:

iPhone 3G, iPad 1, Palm Pre2, Google Nexus S. Take the rest of the email as
personal opinion, I do not claim to speak The Truth but my own experiences.

=== iOS ===

The iOS machines are very polished and built by a company that understands
usability. They created a product to be easy to be used by the masses. It
was never a power user product. It has no features that can come as a
surprise or be misused by their gazillions users. They are GREAT PRODUCTS
and I recommend iOS stuff for my parents and many friends but I don't think
that iOS is the best product out there for power users or developers.

Developing for iOS is a mess due to all the provisioning stuff and Apple
devilish control of who-can-install-what. In essence, you don't control your
own machine. You can install whatever you want. If your friend built and app
that is not on the market, you will need to resort to ad-hoc distribution to
use it. It is a very bad system that punishes the developers. You can have a
curated market and still allow your users to install whatever they want.

>
Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 16:34:11 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> * It requires lots of touches to do simple things.


As an example if this, here's the standard built in way I've found to close a few apps (and please let me know if there is a quicker way!):

iOS: double press the Home button, press and hold on any icon, then touch the X to close any of the apps you want to close.

Android:

1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch that.
8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close. Touch Stop.
10. If greeted with a "Stop system service?" dialog, touch OK.
11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.

I have installed "Advanced Task Killer", which does allow me to quickly close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the standard features here.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 17:08:51 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:

> Android:
>
> 1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
> 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
> 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
> 4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
> 5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
> 6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
> 7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch that.
> 8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
> 9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close. Touch Stop.
> 10. If greeted with a "Stop system service?" dialog, touch OK.
> 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.
>
> I have installed "Advanced Task Killer", which does allow me to quickly
> close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the standard
features here.

You're right about most of the steps, but I can reduce the number of
them a bit. I keep the Settings app on my Home screen.

1. Touch Settings
2. Touch Applications.
3. Touch Manage
4. (Touch Running) - most of the time I can skip this since the app is
usually in the default list. That avoids the delay while the OS creates
a new list.
5. Touch the app, touch Stop.
6. Repeat step 5 for any others

But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
productive. "Running" apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and
the OS will close them automatically as necessary. That may be why it
takes so many steps to do it; in practice it is almost never a good
idea. Task killers are now considered harmful and to be avoided:

<http://droid-den.com/android-guides/android-guide-should-i-use-a-task-killer/>

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 17:18:51 UTC
Permalink
That's a nice theory, but I find that apps such as Angry Birds can get very choppy, and closing everything else can help. I also use it when testing apps, because I want to know whether any slowness is due to the app I'm testing, and not due to any background tasks that are being run.

I'm sure that the various system ones continue to run, and take resources.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 1:08 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

> But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter productive. "Running" apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the OS will close them automatically as necessary.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 17:40:43 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 12:18 PM, Colin Holgate wrote:
> That's a nice theory, but I find that apps such as Angry Birds can
> get very choppy, and closing everything else can help.

It isn't a theory. Google "android task killer necessary".

But if it works for you, that's okay. The better way to manage things is
to just set your apps not to poll in the background.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Pete
2011-10-05 17:56:44 UTC
Permalink
You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
Services.

Pete
Molly's Revenge <http://www.mollysrevenge.com>



> You're right about most of the steps, but I can reduce the number of them a
> bit. I keep the Settings app on my Home screen.
>
> 1. Touch Settings
> 2. Touch Applications.
> 3. Touch Manage
> 4. (Touch Running) - most of the time I can skip this since the app is
> usually in the default list. That avoids the delay while the OS creates a
> new list.
> 5. Touch the app, touch Stop.
> 6. Repeat step 5 for any others
>
> But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
> productive. "Running" apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
> OS will close them automatically as necessary. That may be why it takes so
> many steps to do it; in practice it is almost never a good idea. Task
> killers are now considered harmful and to be avoided:
>
> <http://droid-den.com/android-**guides/android-guide-should-i-**
> use-a-task-killer/<http://droid-den.com/android-guides/android-guide-should-i-use-a-task-killer/>
> >
>
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode<http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>
>
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 18:09:02 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 12:56 PM, Pete wrote:
> You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
> Services.

Can I do it with native Froyo?

I spent quite a while last night trying to download a third-party
launcher alternative and neither AppBrain, Market, or Amazon would allow
my Archos to download one, even though the Archos forum has many folks
using those successfully. So I can't use something like Launcher Pro's
shortcuts feature, which I'd like to do.

(If anyone is willing to send me the apk for Go Launcher or Launcher
Pro, I'd appreciate it. They are both free. Stupid Market doesn't think
my Archos is "compatible".)

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Pete
2011-10-05 18:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Sorry Jacque, I get confused with the alpha vs numeric versions of Android
(as I do with Apple OS X versions!) My phone is running 2.3.3, which I
THINK is Gingerbread but not sure.

Also, on the Skype issue, I've read that Skype is a huge battery hog so good
to get rid of it if you're not using it. Also on battery usage, it's
recommended to keep WiFi switched on permanently since it uses much less
battery than the cell data service. I kinda hate doing that since I'm
forced to pay $30/month to use the cell data service!

Pete
Molly's Revenge <http://www.mollysrevenge.com>




On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:09 AM, J. Landman Gay <***@hyperactivesw.com>wrote:

> On 10/5/11 12:56 PM, Pete wrote:
>
>> You can reduce the first 4 steps to 1 by creating a shortcut to Running
>> Services.
>>
>
> Can I do it with native Froyo?
>
> I s
>
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>
Andre Garzia
2011-10-05 18:01:38 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay <***@hyperactivesw.com>wrote:

>
> But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
> productive. "Running" apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
> OS will close them automatically as necessary.


Jacque,

Yes but Skype is an offender. Drinking battery like a man thats been on the
desert for nine months and finally gets some lemonade.... :-( I use this
mostly to kill skype

--
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 18:16:33 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 1:01 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:08 PM, J. Landman Gay<***@hyperactivesw.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> But: you shouldn't be closing processes on Android, it's counter
>> productive. "Running" apps is a misnomer; they use zero resources, and the
>> OS will close them automatically as necessary.
>
>
> Jacque,
>
> Yes but Skype is an offender. Drinking battery like a man thats been on the
> desert for nine months and finally gets some lemonade.... :-( I use this
> mostly to kill skype
>

That's acceptable, it's one of the exceptions that matches the criteria
explained in the first article I linked to. I do the same. I also have
Skype set not to start on bootup, so I don't have to kill it unless I
manually launch it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 17:11:17 UTC
Permalink
For any of you that didn't spend the time to watch the 90 minute presentation yesterday, here's an 80 second version:

http://gizmodo.com/5846804/the-entire-iphone-4s-keynote-in-80-seconds
Warren Samples
2011-10-05 19:40:47 UTC
Permalink
On 10/05/2011 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:
>
>> * It requires lots of touches to do simple things.
>
> please let me know if there is a quicker way!

> Android:
>
> 1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
> 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
> 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
> 4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
> 5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
> 6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
> 7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch that.
> 8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
> 9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close. Touch Stop.
> 10. If greeted with a "Stop system service?" dialog, touch OK.
> 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.
>

On my Samsung Exhibit, I press and hold the Home button which floats a
window showing recently used applications as well as a button which
opens the task manager where I can kill any open apps all at once or one
at a time.

Warren
Pete
2011-10-05 20:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Nice, I didn't know about the long press on the Home button. On my HTC
Incredible, that does show the recent apps but there isn't a button to get
to the Task Manager (unless I used it recently of course). I can also get a
list of recent apps by pulling down the Notifications bar but, once again,
no button to open task manager.

Maybe it's Android version dependant?

Pete
Molly's Revenge <http://www.mollysrevenge.com>




On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Warren Samples <***@warrensweb.us>wrote:

>
> On my Samsung Exhibit, I press and hold the Home button which floats a
> window showing recently used applications as well as a button which opens
> the task manager where I can kill any open apps all at once or one at a
> time.
>
> Warren
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
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>
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 21:17:27 UTC
Permalink
A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long as we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos collection:

1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer
2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)
2a. restart iDevice and hope it resumes correctly. If it doesn't (has happened to me on numerous occasions) wipe device and reinstall new iOS and sync again, while waving a dead chicken above the device for good pluck!
3. Use iTunes to create a folder for photos.
4. un dock and enjoy the new folder!

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate <***@verizon.net> wrote:

> As an example if this, here's the standard built in way I've found to close a few apps (and please let me know if there is a quicker way!):
>
> iOS: double press the Home button, press and hold on any icon, then touch the X to close any of the apps you want to close.
>
> Android:
>
> 1. Touch the Clock in the lower right.
> 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right. Touch those.
> 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
> 4. Touch Applications in the list on the left.
> 5. Touch Manage applications at the top of the list on the right.
> 6. In the next screen, touch Running on the right.
> 7. This next step can take a while, because it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find the app you want to close, and touch that.
> 8. There may be more than one sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one.
> 9. You're back at the previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close. Touch Stop.
> 10. If greeted with a "Stop system service?" dialog, touch OK.
> 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to close.
>
> I have installed "Advanced Task Killer", which does allow me to quickly close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the standard features here.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Admin
2011-10-05 21:21:12 UTC
Permalink
And on Android, just use a filemanager to create a folder. Takes
about 5 seconds.

Mike

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:17:27 -0500, Chipp
Walters wrote:

> A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS
does not support. As long as we're looking at workflow and use cases,
here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos
collection:
>
> 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer
> 2. Wait
for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)
> 2a. restart
iDevice and hope it resumes correctly. If it doesn't (has happened to me
on numerous occasions) wipe device and reinstall new iOS and sync again,
while waving a dead chicken above the device for good pluck!
> 3. Use
iTunes to create a folder for photos.
> 4. un dock and enjoy the new
folder!
>
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>
> On Oct
5, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Colin Holgate wrote:
>
>> As an example if this,
here's the standard built in way I've found to close a few apps (and
please let me know if there is a quicker way!): iOS: double press the
Home button, press and hold on any icon, then touch the X to close any
of the apps you want to close. Android: 1. Touch the Clock in the lower
right. 2. In the popup that appears there are some sliders to the right.
Touch those. 3. In the popup that appears, touch Settings at the bottom.
4. Touch Applications in the list on the left. 5. Touch Manage
applications at the top of the list on the right. 6. In the next screen,
touch Running on the right. 7. This next step can take a while, because
it lists all of the processes running. Scroll through the list to find
the app you want to close, and touch that. 8. There may be more than one
sub process listed. Touch Stop for each one. 9. You're back at the
previous list now, scroll until you find the next app you want to close.
Touch Stop. 10. If greeted with a "Stop system service?" dialog, touch
OK. 11. Repeat steps 9 and 10 for each of the other apps you want to
close. I have installed "Advanced Task Killer", which does allow me to
quickly close all the processes I want, but I'm only comparing the
standard features here. _______________________________________________
use-livecode mailing list use-***@lists.runrev.com [1] Please visit
this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode [2]
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Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 21:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to your photos and pick ones to add to that album.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:17 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long as we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos collection:
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 21:57:09 UTC
Permalink
No such feature on my iPad2 or my iPhone4. You must be using a much newer iOS than I- (perhaps beta). As I said, I tend more towards the, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory when working with iOS devices as I (and some of my Windows cohorts) had a very precarious time installing new versions and virtually any connect takes me 30 minutes. So, let's just say I've learned to live with the 1000 pictures in my single Camera Roll.

If indeed this now works, it's nice to see it only took Apple a year and a half to add this fairly standard feature. BTW, do you know how to transfer a 15+ Mb Keynote file from your iPad? You can't email it, and unless you've a paid for MobileMe account, it's very, very difficult and require almost as many steps as sharing a simple rev iOS app with a friend.

Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Colin Holgate <***@verizon.net> wrote:

> Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to your photos and pick ones to add to that album.
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:17 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> A quicker way would to use a widget, something iOS does not support. As long as we're looking at workflow and use cases, here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos collection:
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
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> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 22:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Chipp

In what way is your refusal to keep your iOS devices (and knowledge of their capabilities) up-to-date a problem with the iPhone?

By your own measure iOS is (apparently) broken, and yet you refuse to fix the problem because "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? And it well might be a feature in iOS 5 - as a registered Apple developer you should know that.

Transferring a 15mb Keynote file will be trivial with iCloud. You keep complaining that the iPhone is a "turd" because it doesn't have a feature that it, um, has.

Your problem with deploying an enterprise app is sad, but it's hardly a reason for ordinary consumers to buy Android over iOS. It may be a problem for you, but it isn't for most developers.


Gerry


On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> No such feature on my iPad2 or my iPhone4. You must be using a much newer iOS than I- (perhaps beta). As I said, I tend more towards the, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" theory when working with iOS devices as I (and some of my Windows cohorts) had a very precarious time installing new versions and virtually any connect takes me 30 minutes. So, let's just say I've learned to live with the 1000 pictures in my single Camera Roll.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 22:43:07 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 4:57 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's
> a huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that
> before.

You can share Android apps like any file. Email, Dropbox, internet
download, cabled computer transfer, and with the right file manager,
over a LAN.

Note that this introduces security issues if you are downloading new
apps, particularly if they are not from one of the established markets.
Ease of use has trade-offs.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 22:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Set up to do that on iOS took me less than an hour, and it takes a new ad hoc user about 10 minutes to add themselves to the distribution group once I've issued an invite. Actually distributing an ad hoc build takes me...oh...5 minutes? A huge pain, I agree...

Gerry


On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-06 01:22:19 UTC
Permalink
For you, maybe. Here's how I build for my customers:

Mac, PC, and soon, Android:

Here's the app. Don't worry about any sort of license. And.. don't worry
about updates. We use our own self-updating architecture, refined over
hundreds of apps and thousands of instances, to instantly update your
application whenever it is needed. Using MagicCarpet: Time to revision = 25
seconds (the time of an FTP upload). Now everyone is up-to-date next time
they launch the application.

It's possible I can update an App several times a day. Five updates take me
all of 3 minutes or less.

But for iPhone, please wait until we can receive the correct data from you
(UUID) to add you to the ad hoc list, then we can create a new build (1 hour
by your measure, more by ours), and you should be good to go in less than 24
hours UNLESS we have to put it in the AppStore, then it will take a week.

How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
agree is a POS. Great job.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Gerry Orkin <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Set up to do that on iOS took me less than an hour, and it takes a new ad
> hoc user about 10 minutes to add themselves to the distribution group once
> I've issued an invite. Actually distributing an ad hoc build takes
> me...oh...5 minutes? A huge pain, I agree...
>
> Gerry
>
>
> On 06/10/2011, at 8:57 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > Just wondering, how does one share a Rev app on Android? I know it's a
> huge pain to ad hoc share an app on iTunes-- I have done that before.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-06 01:37:55 UTC
Permalink
I don't use enterprise distribution so I can't comment on that - it does sound a pain, and I'm not defending it - read my message again. My point was that your problems with that have NO bearing on whether the iPhone is or is not a better choice for typical users.

As for my method of distribution - it really does take less than an hour to set up, and ten minutes max to add a new ad hoc user.

Gerry

On 06/10/2011, at 12:22 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
> agree is a POS. Great job.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-06 01:50:42 UTC
Permalink
How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
every time they launch their app?

I have been trying to update my iPad for 2+ hours now, and hopefully it will
be done soon and I'll have the new "add folder" feature (or is it on beta
software only?). And THAT is the reason I don't update so often-- it just
takes TOO long. I also don't update my Win 7 computer every patch released,
nor did I update my Mac to Lion just yet. Like many, I tend to 'wait a bit
for the dust to settle.'

You misconstrued my lame attempt at making a point. The point is NOT whether
the iPhone is a better choice for typical users. My point was a rebuttal to
Colin's criticism of Androids workflow. Anytime you have to hook your mobile
device to a desktop computer just to manage it, is IMO, a HUGE workflow
issue.

Let's stop this back and forth. I understand you really like the iPhone-- we
can both agree on that. I have one. And, we can own one companies model and
still appreciate features in another companies model. There was a time I
used to design computers for all these guys and couldn't afford to be fans
of only Apple, or Compaq, or Dell, or Toshiba, or IBM or Sony. I suppose
that is why I now try and look at all these models and brands from as
objective viewpoint as possible.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Gerry Orkin <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't use enterprise distribution so I can't comment on that - it does
> sound a pain, and I'm not defending it - read my message again. My point was
> that your problems with that have NO bearing on whether the iPhone is or is
> not a better choice for typical users.
>
> As for my method of distribution - it really does take less than an hour to
> set up, and ten minutes max to add a new ad hoc user.
>
> Gerry
>
> On 06/10/2011, at 12:22 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
> > How funny you try and defend the one area which even the Mac faithful all
> > agree is a POS. Great job.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>



--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-06 03:49:09 UTC
Permalink
> How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
> every time they launch their app?

Yes. I have about 45 users using a custom app that downloads updates from my own server on startup. The mechanism took a day or two to work out but it works flawlessly.

> I have been trying to update my iPad for 2+ hours now, and hopefully it will
> be done soon and I'll have the new "add folder" feature (or is it on beta
> software only?).

iOS 5 has this capability - you are eligible to download the GM and install it on your device(s). Apple has solved your problem.

> And THAT is the reason I don't update so often-- it just
> takes TOO long.

iOS 5 includes over the air OS updates. Again, Apple to the rescue.

> Anytime you have to hook your mobile
> device to a desktop computer just to manage it, is IMO, a HUGE workflow
> issue.

iOS 5: problem solved.

> why I now try and look at all these models and brands from as
> objective viewpoint as possible.

I'm not objective at all, and neither are you :)

Cheers

Gerry
Chipp Walters
2011-10-06 03:56:50 UTC
Permalink
On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:49 PM, Gerry Orkin <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> How are you updating your apps? Do you users automatically receive updates
>> every time they launch their app?
>
> Yes. I have about 45 users using a custom app that downloads updates from my own server on startup. The mechanism took a day or two to work out but it works flawlessly.

I suspect you keep all this very quiet and don't tell the iOS police, for if they knew, they would certainly pull your license...
Chipp Walters
2011-10-06 03:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any "New Album" feature. You must be using a developer beta version.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Colin Holgate <***@verizon.net> wrote:

> Do you mean Albums? You can touch the Album tab, Edit, New Album, then go to your photos and pick ones to add to that album.
>
Colin Holgate
2011-10-06 03:31:05 UTC
Permalink
You should look forward to another couple of update hours on the 12th.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any "New Album" feature. You must be using a developer beta version.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-06 03:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Yup. Chris had mentioned to me earlier it's a good idea to update everything now, so the iOS5 update would go more smoothly-- as skipping versions doesn't get tested as much.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 10:31 PM, Colin Holgate <***@verizon.net> wrote:

> You should look forward to another couple of update hours on the 12th.
>
>
> On Oct 5, 2011, at 11:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>
>> Just updated my iPad to the latest iOS and there's not any "New Album" feature. You must be using a developer beta version.
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 21:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Chipp wrote:

> here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos collection:
>
> 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer

Really? This is how I do it:

1) Open Photos app on the device
2) Touch the Albums button
3) Touch the "Add" button
4) Name the album

> 2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)

At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.

Gerry
Colin Holgate
2011-10-05 21:44:02 UTC
Permalink
In Android's defense, they did already have the over the air system updating working. That's a nice new addition to iOS 5. Also, they come out if the blue! Acer tend to be behind others in updating their systems, so it was a surprise when I got given 3.2 the other day.


On Oct 5, 2011, at 5:39 PM, Gerry Orkin wrote:

> At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 22:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Hmmm.

A quick search on this issue shows:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlzh856Guxg&v=Xlzh856Guxg&gl=US

I'm still not sure this feature is available on non beta versions of iOS. Do
you know?

On Wednesday, October 5, 2011, Gerry Orkin <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chipp wrote:
>
>> here is the only way I know how to simply add a folder to my photos
collection:
>>
>> 1. Dock my iPad/iPhone to my desktop computer
>
> Really? This is how I do it:
>
> 1) Open Photos app on the device
> 2) Touch the Albums button
> 3) Touch the "Add" button
> 4) Name the album
>
>> 2. Wait for it to sync, and install an OS update (30-45 min)
>
> At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android many
devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated to take
advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.
>
> Gerry
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>

--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 22:37:05 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 4:39 PM, Gerry Orkin wrote:

> At least Apple releases OS updates on a regular basis. On Android
> many devices are stuck on old versions of the OS, never to be updated
> to take advantage of the (supposed) benefits of the platform.

Definitely a down side for Android. I'm stuck at 2.2, many versions
behind the latest. My tablet was obsolete about 4 months after purchase.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Bob Sneidar
2011-10-05 17:03:11 UTC
Permalink
I agree with you mostly, except being an IT guy, I know how easily people attribute any problems that arise to "the network" or to "the IT guy" and they do not need any real hard empirical data to back it up. They just "know".

So let's say Apple allows apps outside their app store to be installed and used. Suddenly Joe Shmo's battery is running down in 4 hours. Suzy Shmo installs another app and next day all her contacts are getting spammed to death, and she cannot log into her bank account anymore because the password changed. All of a sudden the iPhone sucks. In their early days that would have been fatal.

I am dealing now with a laptop that is extremely slow. I allowed the end user to be an admin with the promise he would not install software that was not absolutely necessary, and from a reputable source. I now discover he has a bit torrent client and a free movie downloader, and the disk is almost full.

Freedom comes at a price, especially if the freeman has no compunction towards wisdom.

Bob


On Oct 5, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> You can have a
> curated market and still allow your users to install whatever they want.
Richard Gaskin
2011-10-05 18:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Bob Sneidar wrote:

> I agree with you mostly, except being an IT guy, I know how easily people attribute any problems that arise to "the network" or to "the IT guy" and they do not need any real hard empirical data to back it up. They just "know".
...
> Freedom comes at a price, especially if the freeman has no compunction towards wisdom.

In a very different context, Ben Franklin is alleged to have once said:

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

;)

The cool thing is we have a choice. We can evaluate the trade-offs
inherent in the approaches offered by iOS and Android, and decide which
provides the greatest overall benefit for our own specific needs.

Those who suggest that only one must exist and the other is completely
wrong present a position which is as impossible as it is undesirable.

I don't think anyone wants to see a mobile world where only one company
decides what all of us can and cannot do. Competition is healthy, for
us as end-users and even for the competitors themselves, since it keeps
them doing their best work.

Both iOS and Android are going to be around for a while.

We can pick the one we like most, and enjoy it. We can even use them both.

As LiveCode developers we get to enjoy it all, immune to the whims of
any single OS vendor.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World
LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
Andre Garzia
2011-10-05 19:05:15 UTC
Permalink
> The cool thing is we have a choice. We can evaluate the trade-offs
> inherent in the approaches offered by iOS and Android, and decide which
> provides the greatest overall benefit for our own specific needs.
> e <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>
>
All Hail WebOS!!!!

oops... wrong thread, enough fanboyism... :D



--
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 20:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the AT&T store today. As a side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27% with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/

And regarding Apple's lackluster performance yesterday, even the Apple fans agree:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/05/apples_iphone_4s_event_seen_lacking_panache_allowing_android_to_gain.html

The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones, but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will migrate.

Back to AT&T. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my AT&T plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others similarly.

So, my prediction. I believe within 3 years of Jobs not being chairman, iOS devices will be in the 30% marketshare for both tablets and phones OR Apple will begin licensing iOS to other manufacturers.
Dave McKee
2011-10-05 21:19:25 UTC
Permalink
What is rate of return on iPhone 4 vs competitive solution ? And same question as it applies to an iOS app vs ?

Hodie Non Cras

On 2011-10-05, at 4:55 PM, Chipp Walters <***@altuit.com> wrote:

> Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the AT&T store today. As a side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27% with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
> http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/
>
> And regarding Apple's lackluster performance yesterday, even the Apple fans agree:
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/05/apples_iphone_4s_event_seen_lacking_panache_allowing_android_to_gain.html
>
> The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones, but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will migrate.
>
> Back to AT&T. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my AT&T plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others similarly.
>
> So, my prediction. I believe within 3 years of Jobs not being chairman, iOS devices will be in the 30% marketshare for both tablets and phones OR Apple will begin licensing iOS to other manufacturers.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
John Dixon
2011-10-05 21:41:33 UTC
Permalink
I suspect, after reading your earlier post, that your 'downer' on Apple's new phone seems to be that it did not carry the number '5' in its title… As Shakespeare asked, '"What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet."


Don't forget, the iphone 4 has not been around for that long… Lots of people who carry contracts on their iphones still have a long time to wait before they would be able to upgrade their device.. Calling the new iPhone '4s' might just turn out to be a very clever decision economically since a lot of people might be 'miffed' that completely new model has appeared and that they are still somewhere in the middle of the term of their contract.


I think that the new iPhone is excellent, improvements in the processor being used, a new operating system iOS 5, 8 megapixels in the camera, longer battery life, hopefully with the antenna being able to switch between signals, err… perhaps it's a 4G handset ! … Here in the UK the '4s' will go on sale in a few days time at a lower price than the iPhone 4 by £12… the cost of an iPhone 4 has fallen by £ 72…


Or perhaps your present iPhone has just stopped working will the arrival of its new cousin…


Thankfully, this to o a liveCode programmer this should not really matter one iota as Edinburgh provide you with the ability to write apps for both the Apple and Android device offerings ? It's a phone, does it really matter ?
Dixie
> Subject: Re: new iPhone 4s
> From: ***@altuit.com
> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:55:29 -0500
> To: use-***@lists.runrev.com
>
> Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the AT&T store today. As a side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27% with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
> http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/
>
> And regarding Apple's lackluster performance yesterday, even the Apple fans agree:
> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/05/apples_iphone_4s_event_seen_lacking_panache_allowing_android_to_gain.html
>
> The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones, but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will migrate.
>
> Back to AT&T. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my AT&T plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others similarly.
>
> So, my prediction. I believe within 3 years of Jobs not being chairman, iOS devices will be in the 30% marketshare for both tablets and phones OR Apple will begin licensing iOS to other manufacturers.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 22:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Dixie,

"Does it really matter?"

Altuit has tried unsuccessfully for the past 60 days to purchase an enterprise license. Apple has required our company to submit a D&B rating, then they've asked for our Articles of Incorporation. We've been stuck there for quite awhile. I'm told there is also an interview process where you are grilled about the application you're designing.

We've decided to finally give up and let's just require all agents to use Androids. The requirements application for developing Enterprise apps for Androids are... ZIP. Just develop, compile, and away you go. So, I guess it does matter to some.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:41 PM, John Dixon <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> I suspect, after reading your earlier post, that your 'downer' on Apple's new phone seems to be that it did not carry the number '5' in its title… As Shakespeare asked, '"What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet."
>
>
> Don't forget, the iphone 4 has not been around for that long… Lots of people who carry contracts on their iphones still have a long time to wait before they would be able to upgrade their device.. Calling the new iPhone '4s' might just turn out to be a very clever decision economically since a lot of people might be 'miffed' that completely new model has appeared and that they are still somewhere in the middle of the term of their contract.
>
>
> I think that the new iPhone is excellent, improvements in the processor being used, a new operating system iOS 5, 8 megapixels in the camera, longer battery life, hopefully with the antenna being able to switch between signals, err… perhaps it's a 4G handset ! … Here in the UK the '4s' will go on sale in a few days time at a lower price than the iPhone 4 by £12… the cost of an iPhone 4 has fallen by £ 72…
>
>
> Or perhaps your present iPhone has just stopped working will the arrival of its new cousin…
>
>
> Thankfully, this to o a liveCode programmer this should not really matter one iota as Edinburgh provide you with the ability to write apps for both the Apple and Android device offerings ? It's a phone, does it really matter ?
> Dixie
>> Subject: Re: new iPhone 4s
>> From: ***@altuit.com
>> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:55:29 -0500
>> To: use-***@lists.runrev.com
>>
>> Based on the feedback here, and knowing I can't wait another 16 months for Apple to announce a competitive phone, I visited the AT&T store today. As a side note, when Apple first introduced the iPhone 4, Android had only 9% of the smartphone market. Now, only 16 months later, it has passed Apple's 27% with an almost 44% share. Wow! Talk about growth and adoption rate.
>> http://www.slashgear.com/comscore-android-nears-44-of-us-smartphone-market-share-05185688/
>>
>> And regarding Apple's lackluster performance yesterday, even the Apple fans agree:
>> http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/05/apples_iphone_4s_event_seen_lacking_panache_allowing_android_to_gain.html
>>
>> The trend is clear. For a short time, Apple owned the market in Smartphones, but no longer. Apples tablet marketshare has dropped another 20 points over the past year. Apple's incredible designs and features have been copied and many eclipsed by the competition-- and for a lower price. Those who are brand loyal stick with Apple. Those who are value and feature conscious will migrate.
>>
>> Back to AT&T. The salesperson told me how surprised he was to see the many of iPhone users asking the same questions today about Android smartphones. And here's the rub: whether you agree with him, or me, the fact is when I switch to Android, I take a whole lot of folks with me. I have 5 iPhone users on my AT&T plan. I influence many other close relatives and family members who look to me to provide advice on these sort of difficult decisions. I also have quite an active social media profile. I suspect there are also many leading edge consumers who are considering a switch which will affect others similarly.
>>
>> So, my prediction. I believe within 3 years of Jobs not being chairman, iOS devices will be in the 30% marketshare for both tablets and phones OR Apple will begin licensing iOS to other manufacturers.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-***@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> _______________________________________________
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-***@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Pete
2011-10-05 06:12:23 UTC
Permalink
My wife and I just upgraded our phones (with Verizon). We each had a Droid
Eris and I have to say they sucked.

I upgraded to an HTC Incredible and my wife got an iPhone 4. I am extremely
happy with my Incredible - it is a huge advance over the Eris in every way.
I have had it for about a month now and have NEVER had to reboot it.

I'm interested in the comment about malware, lack of controls and poor
security. Any more info available? Because I'd like to be aware of
problems in those areas so I can take steps to prevent them. I've already
installed an anti-virus app. And let's not forget the hoo hah a couple of
months ago regarding the file of location info that Apple secretly collected
on the iphone

There are two huge advantages to the Incredible for me - Goggle Navigation
and being able to seamlessly and wirelessly sync my phone calendar and
address book with my Apple desktop out of the box.

My wife is equally happy with her iPhone. I think it comes down to what
sort of user you are ( yes :"user", these are computers that happen to make
phone calls).

My wife is not a computer expert and like most Apple products, the iPhone is
very simple to set up and use for the simple, everyday stuff. I have a
computer background and like to set up a phone the way I want it to be, not
the way the manufacturer thinks it should be. Plus, no matter how good
Apple products are, I hate the business practices they have adopted over the
last couple of years.

Pete
Molly's Revenge <http://www.mollysrevenge.com>




On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Admin <***@mfelkerco.com> wrote:

>
>
> Bill,
>
> I could not disagree more. My Iphone crashed constantly and
> had to be rebooted all the time. My wife's BRAND NEW itouch 4 - same
> thing.
>
> My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
> with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
> You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
> number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
> far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
> and only one of Apple.
>
> Mike
>
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 21:54:39 -0700, Bill
> Vlahos wrote:
>
> > I haven't used an Android but the people at work who
> have personal ones say they like them but find that they are buggy and
> need to be restarted frequently. The ones that have them like them
> because they can tinker more with them but even they say we shouldn't
> support them. It reminds me of the people who want to build their own
> PCs.
> >
> > We don't support Android because of malware, lack of controls,
> and poor security model.
> >
> > I know people complain about no LTE on the
> iPhone but all the LTE phones have horrible battery life. I'll be more
> excited about LTE when it is more widely available. Right now it is
> pointless unless you live in one of the areas that have it.
> >
> > The
> iPhones prior to the 4 had minimally acceptable battery life but the 4s
> are very good. For people who want even more extended life there are
> very nice battery packs that the iPhones slip into. These add a
> surprisingly small amount of weight and size and are very comfortable. I
> don't use them because I find the battery life to be plenty for me.
> >
> >
> I think the defining features of the iPhone 4S are the improved
> performance and Siri voice features. If Siri just proves to be speech to
> text like Dragon Naturally Speaking or the feature on Android phones
> then it won't be a big deal at all. However, if it is more like the IBM
> Watson computer that won on Jeopardy then it will truly be
> revolutionary. I won't really be able to know until the 4S is out and I
> can try it.
> >
> > I think the 4S is a lot better than you describe.
> >
> >
> Bill Vlahos
> > _________________
> > InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com
> [3]) is about keeping your important life information with you,
> accessible, and secure.
> >
> > On Oct 4, 2011, at 7:44 PM, Chipp Walters
> wrote:
> >
> >> Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5,
> and Apple lays this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long
> to screw things up now that Jobs is gone. Now, I'm considering upgrading
> my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have experience with both and can offer
> advice? -- Chipp Walters CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
> _______________________________________________ use-livecode mailing
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Bill Vlahos
2011-10-05 06:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Firstly. I'm not trying to start or fan a flame war on phones.
I use LiveCode because it supports all platforms.

On Oct 4, 2011, at 11:12 PM, Pete wrote:

> My wife and I just upgraded our phones (with Verizon). We each had a Droid
> Eris and I have to say they sucked.
>
> I upgraded to an HTC Incredible and my wife got an iPhone 4. I am extremely
> happy with my Incredible - it is a huge advance over the Eris in every way.
> I have had it for about a month now and have NEVER had to reboot it.
Glad to hear that.
>
> I'm interested in the comment about malware, lack of controls and poor
> security. Any more info available?
Malware: http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/08/23/mcafee.shows.android.facing.huge.spike.in.malware/

Encryption: Honeycomb is the first Android OS to provide built in encryption and I don't believe any Android phones are running it yet.
The iPhone has always had encryption built in with the 3GS and 4 done in hardware.

The openness that people like about Android lets you anything from anywhere so there is very little vetting of software. As far as I know this cannot be disabled. Check the Malware and Security section in the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)

> Because I'd like to be aware of
> problems in those areas so I can take steps to prevent them.
Don't Jail Break your phone. I can't believe the number of people who complain about iPhone security on JailBroken phones where the purpose of breaking them is to bypass the security.
> I've already
> installed an anti-virus app. And let's not forget the hoo hah a couple of
> months ago regarding the file of location info that Apple secretly collected
> on the iPhone
That file was a mistake, was never uploaded to Apple and has since been removed. Google has more problems in this area. Read more in the wikipedia entry on Privacy.
>
> There are two huge advantages to the Incredible for me - Goggle Navigation
> and being able to seamlessly and wirelessly sync my phone calendar and
> address book with my Apple desktop out of the box.
>
> My wife is equally happy with her iPhone. I think it comes down to what
> sort of user you are ( yes :"user", these are computers that happen to make
> phone calls).
>
> My wife is not a computer expert and like most Apple products, the iPhone is
> very simple to set up and use for the simple, everyday stuff. I have a
> computer background and like to set up a phone the way I want it to be, not
> the way the manufacturer thinks it should be. Plus, no matter how good
> Apple products are, I hate the business practices they have adopted over the
> last couple of years.
>
> Pete
> Molly's Revenge
Gerry Orkin
2011-10-05 06:17:33 UTC
Permalink
You and your wife are a very small sample. But I'm glad you found a phone that works for you (so have I - it's an iPhone). And honestly, arguing for the superiority of a phone based on the numbers sold is just bad science. Lot's of factors (personal preference, carrier choice, cost, product loyalty are also part of the mix of factors at play.


On 05/10/2011, at 4:33 PM, Admin wrote:

> My HTC Evo - NEVER has a problem. Never. Great battery life
> with a nice large battery I purchased for it. Outstanding in every way.
> You are a FOOL if you do not support Android - it dwarfs Apple in sheer
> number of companies that support it. It won't be long before Androids
> far outnumber iphones - it's a numbers game and there are more of them
> and only one of Apple.
Chipp Walters
2011-10-05 07:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Pete,

Thanks very much for your candid and non-biased review-- just what I was
looking for. I'm not i treated in mobile OS wars, but am just thinking of
switching to Android as I very non-plussed with the Apple iPhone 4s, and
would be giving my 4 to my wife. I already own Siri, and don't really use it
that much. I use an app called "reQall" which I can dictate to and it
automatically puts stuff correctlyonmy calendar. It uses actual humans to do
this and costs a small monthly fee.

Stephen,

Very sorry to have continually affronted your finely honed sense of
fairness! You've been around these forums as long as I have, heck, maybe
longer. We've agreed and disagreed, then agreed some more-- and I've shared
some of my favorite eating places here in Austin with you. Always love
chatting with you and especially enjoy your ruminations of the good old
times. I'm having some fun here-- and trying to learn about Android as well.
I know I'll end up stepping on the sensibilities of the Mac faithful-- it
always happens-- and they always respond predictably, as if one of their own
family is being attacked. C'est la vie!

Gerry,

Again, not really interested in your opinion of my level of "ill informed."
I only stated, as have many pundits, bloggers and media folks, that the 4s
is quite a bit less than what we've come to expect from Apple announcements.
I will still stand by my earlier claim the iPhone is the single greatest
invention I have ever owned, with the Mac 128 a close second. But, that was
years ago and I'm interested in learning about the other options today.

PS I do know for a fact the iphone5 exists. That part I'm not "ill informed"
on. That's all I can say. I was hoping I'd see it today. Guess not.




--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
J. Landman Gay
2011-10-05 15:52:38 UTC
Permalink
What the heck, I'll add to this. I have both an iPad 2 and a cheapo
Archos 7" Android tablet.

As a long-time computer user, I found iOS extremely frustrating. The
beauty of Mac was always its consistency -- you always knew where the
menus and other bits were. iOS is more like early Windows in that every
app decides on its own what controls you have and where they are placed.
I can't find anything on the iPad, and half the time that's because the
developer just didn't put what I want in there. To me, iOS seems so
dumbed down I can barely use it. I also don't like Apple's iron control
of the device but on the other hand I appreciate the security.

I like Android OS a lot. There is more consistency, every app has menus,
most have common interface elements, you can browse the file system and
you have far more control over the device. You can install what you want
and you are responsible for your decisions. That doesn't bother me. Most
Android malware comes from non-authorized sources, so I stick to Market
and Amazon for apps.

My iPad is far more stable than my Android tablet, though. That may be
because I use the Android more and have installed a lot of buggy test
apps on it. I do need to reboot the device more often. I prefer the way
the iBook software on iOS looks, but in practice I use Aldiko on Android
because it has more features and is more adjustable. I find that most
major Android apps offer more features than iOS apps. It's the dumb-down
thing again.

I don't watch many movies or play much music on either one, but when I
have, I find the experience to be fairly comparable. My Archos, in spite
of its lowly specs, is a very good media machine and can play more types
of content than iOS (and not just Flash.)

For me, iOS seems good for non-computer users who have specific uses in
mind and few requirements. Android is good for people who actually want
to have some control over their device and its content.

Google announced yesterday that new Android activations have tripled in
the last three months and within a few weeks there will be 1 million new
activations per day. iOS has 80% of the tablet market, but Android holds
most of the phone market. Adobe is releasing its mobile version of
Photoshop for Android first, to be followed later by an iOS version.
That's what I plan to do for the app I'm working on too. It's much
easier to release for Android.

I have to agree that any developer who is ignoring Android is cutting
themselves off from a huge chunk of market share.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | ***@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
Ralph DiMola
2011-10-05 15:31:54 UTC
Permalink
I have an iPad and Droid X. The Droid is multi processing. The iPad runs
only one app at a time (or so it seems). I was out in the back country
snowmobiling using the droid to map and track my location over a PDF of the
trail map. Listening to Pandora via 3g and mp3s to my Bluetooth speaker.
Taking pictures. All at the same time! I also Googled once and made a phone
call or two. Sent an email and accessed my desktop at home when a customer
called. The Mapping program ran and tracked my location at all times. I have
32gigs of sdcard memory and keep 2-4 full length 720p movies onboard at all
times. Great for a road trips! Get to the hotel and connect up the HDMI
cable to the hotel TV and your good-to-go for sdcard or streaming video or
reviewing pictures. The Android is an amazing computer. 1 battery(high
capacity to be fair) lasts ~8-10 Hours during the snowmobile outings. I
always carry a spare battery and can change it at will.

IPhones and iPads are REALLY cool devices, but the Android is just plain
amazing.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
Phone: 518-636-3998 Ex:11
Cell: 518-796-9332


-----Original Message-----
From: use-livecode-***@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-livecode-***@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Chipp Walters
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 10:44 PM
To: How to use LiveCode
Subject: new iPhone 4s

Apple iPhone 4s-- ugh. All psyched up about the iPhone 5, and Apple lays
this turd. So disappointing. Jeez, didn't take them long to screw things up
now that Jobs is gone.

Now, I'm considering upgrading my iPhone 4 to Android. Anyone have
experience with both and can offer advice?

--
Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc.
_______________________________________________
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stephen barncard
2011-10-04 19:21:37 UTC
Permalink
Tim Cook and Phil Schiller did a good presentation today.
Cook could be mistaken as Jobs' older similarly birdlike, incredibly thin
brother.

one more thing: the prices:

4s 16gig - $200/2year
4s 32gig - $300/2
4s 64gig - $400/2

4 8 gig - $99/2
3Gs 8 gig "free with plan"

still selling the older phone

pre-order date Oct 7
in stores Oct 14 (good luck)

On 4 October 2011 12:03, stephen barncard
<***@barncard.com>wrote:

> watching apple announcement on CNN on the iPad
>
>

Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb <http://www.google.com/profiles/sbarncar>
Ruslan Zasukhin
2011-10-05 07:02:53 UTC
Permalink
On 10/5/11 7:54 AM, "Bill Vlahos" <***@mac.com> wrote:

> I haven't used an Android but the people at work who have personal ones say
> they like them but find that they are buggy and need to be restarted
> frequently. The ones that have them like them because they can tinker more
> with them but even they say we shouldn't support them. It reminds me of the
> people who want to build their own PCs.

Choice between ios and android IMO
Very similar to choice between MAC OS X and Linux.

I have linux. And I have spend many days working on it from morning to
evening. During development.

And it looks .... Not cool after OS X :)

And endless zoo as result of "freedom" makes life to be nightmare...
Only people with special mind can be happy with such freedom I think. :-)


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]
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